TRIPLE Exclusive - An Interview with Michael Engleman

Most, if not all, not-for-profit organizations begin with a single individual’s passion for a specific issue or a cause. Such is the case with the US Women's Cycling Development Program and Michael Engleman.

A former elite runner and cyclist [riding for Coors and US Postal], Mr. Engleman founded the USWCDP with the simple belief that “an elite athlete should never be held back in their sport because they do not know the right people, they can’t afford to participate, or they cannot get a question answered.” As the organization’s Director, he has created a program whereby “promising elite women cyclists” have the “access to the most advanced technologies and training with guidance from experienced and dedicated professionals and premier women cyclist mentors.”

With a growing number of like minded individuals and sponsors, Mr. Engleman and the USWCDP “hope to propel the best U.S. cyclists to the very top in women’s cycling, create excitement and enthusiasm, and to firmly establish U.S. Women’s Cycling both in the field and with the public.”


In my conversation with Michael Engleman we discuss distance running, how he developed a passion for cycling and became a proponent for women’s cycling, and where he sees the USWCDP’s place in the sport.

Granny’s 30 (G): It states in your bio that you started out as a distance runner. What were your events…what were your aspirations [Worlds, Olympics]?

Michael Engleman (ME): I ran a 9:00 two mile, a 30:41 10K and a 2:20 something marathon so I was OK at most distances and not really good at anything. I had lived to run and I thought it was my purpose in life so I keep at it even when I started falling apart. I realized later that those times helped me define the difference between determination and stubbornness.

G: Who were your athletic, running, role models?

ME: I mostly looked up to Frank Shorter as did just about every distance runner in those days but I was a member of the Dallas Cross Country Club so I got to train with Jeff Wells and John Ludwig who were 2:10 and 2:12 marathoners and also pretty good guys. I remember being impressed that World Class athletes are really as normal as most people, that is OK to keep your powers to yourself if you chose, that the shrapnel of ego and determination only flew when its time to compete.

G: Your bio also states that you turned to the bicycle after a series of running injuries. Did you use the bicycle for cross training before the injuries, or were you like most distance runners focused on your miles, fartlek splits, etc.?

ME: I never did any cross training when I ran. I just ran tons of miles and got a little one dimensional. I did train hard and well but I think I might have gone further if I had mellowed a little, gone for a hike or rode a town bike around. All my training was very regimented and I think that has something with how I chose to coach now. Smell the roses sort of thing.

G: Have you ever read Parker's "Once a Runner"? If so, have you picked up a copy of "Again to Carthage" yet?

ME: Read it many times! Haven't gotten to the sequel yet.

G: As a distance runner did you like to sit-in or were you a front runner? Did you have a great finishing kick?

ME: I think I always tried to hang with runners who were better then me. Not much sprint left in the end.

G: When did you first realize you were a cyclists…what is it about the sport that you love?

ME: The sport really found me. After I stopped running I just missed having a goal so I got an old bike and started riding and it turned out I could ride with most anyone. My local bike shop talked me into racing and that was that with all the rest being old history. I found that I liked the "thinking" part of the sport, that good day or bad day you could try and find a way to make something of it.

G: You stated that you liked the thinking aspect of the sport. A lot has been made about the use of technology [radios, etc] in the way riders communicate to their directors these days, do you think it's beneficial or does it "dull" a racer's instincts?

ME: I think radios can be a good teaching tool but I prefer to use them as info mostly...who is in the break, the time gaps, things like that. I find that some people spend way to much time talking into them just to talk. The point is that the athletes learn to race, not wait to hear what to do. Really the best way to learn racing is to race with smart teammates! Not all tools have to be weapons where you just fire away constantly; mostly you just need a rack or a bucket so you can gather what you learn.

G: Coors Light, US Postal…what were some of your most memorable moments…favorite memories…career highlights [Downers Grove?]?

ME: Mt. Evans, Nevada City, Corestates, Downers Grove in the rain, Coors Classic, Davis Phinney, Dave Mann, Kristin Armstrong, Alison Dunlap, Mara Abbott getting second at the Montreal World Cup and then winning Nationals, helping to get a pro contract for Amy Dombroski (inset) and Kristin McGrath, having Rebecca Much come back into the sport. I really don't look back at my career much; I don't put much on what I did but rather what I learned. I think the one great gift of my athletic career is that it has lead me to this point where I get to see athletes work toward their own highlights. I think the line goes that while life is very short but it is also very wide, that the journey may be short but it is also vast so I feel that my most memorable moment is in front of me and I don't want to miss it because I'm looking backwards.

G: What do you think about that final turn at Downers, do you think the course should be changed, or keep with tradition?

ME: Well, its bike racing and you race the course they give you. I am against any course that is unsafe no matter the tradition but I'm not totally sure that Downers is unsafe. Really the depth of talent has increased so much that there are more great riders going for any corner on every course. As it’s been said, the answer is an acorn; the question is a giant oak.

G: Crits or Road Races?

ME: I hated flat four corner crits and I loved climbs. Basically I liked a race where some tactics could play into it.

G: When you were racing, did you pay attention to the women's races?

ME: One of my oldest friends is Ruthie Matthes and I saw all that she went through trying to make a living in cycling while also trying to be the type of athlete she was born to be. I think that made me notice more and I remember watching Dede Demet (Barry) and admiring the way she always gave EVERYTHING she had. We were all in the same sport and I took it serious and I never saw that the women did not do the same.

G: You were the Asst. Director with T-Mobile for two years…what is it about women's cycling that drew you to the sport?

ME: On T-Mobile I found incredible athletes who were also remarkable people. I got to work with and be around athletes such as Kristin Armstrong, Sarah Hammer, Dede Barry, Amber Neben, Kimberly Baldwin, Kim Anderson, Stacey Peters, Mari Holden and you could not help but be inspired by what the capabilities were. What really drew me in is that this is the story all across the sport! Look at what Christine Thorburn has accomplished while being a Doctor or the lofty agenda that Amber Rais is working on. Mara Abbott is so concerned with how she can make a difference in the world as she is also starting the next big step in her cycling career.

G: Why are you a proponent of women's cycling? What is appealing about it, objectively? What is appealing about women's cycling relative to men's cycling? Why do you think men's cycling still takes center stage over women's? What do you think should change in women's cycling to get people more interested and excited about it?

ME: The quick categorical answers are that were are not enough real proponents of women's cycling and I felt I would be remiss if I didn't step up to help in some way. I see people who not only want to perform in a sport at a World Class level I also see them as wanting to change the World in positive ways and how could I not want to be involved with that!

I think these women will lead their own way...those that mean the most will notice...

I have heard it told that if a rider is talented they will get noticed, that the National Team or a pro team will see them, but I think that takes a chance that someone will get missed. You can do a camp and tell a rider they are good but if you just send them home to no coaching or support it becomes just a roll of the dice on when they might get a break though. I first saw Mara Abbott at a camp and I just kept in touch with her for a few years while she lived her life as a student and a swimmer. Who knows where she would have ended otherwise? Maybe the same place but maybe not? Alison Powers and Katharine Carroll are two more where a few small things have made an enormous difference. They are both so very talented that they most likely would succeed anyway, but why not seek to give them a hand at the beginning. I think if you just watch the top 3 finishers all the time you might miss the athlete that finishes 12th but is also the one that makes you say "Damn! She's really good". I saw Carmen McNellis (now with Aaron's and also a US National team member) race once and then talked to her and I knew she had real talent and also the mind of an athlete.

Bad news reads as good or better then good news...the racing is exciting but so is the women's...look at l'Aude the past few years...why isn't Amber Neben anywhere as known as she should be?

I would have liked one of those companies who have pulled out of sponsoring men's teams to have looked to the women athletes and seen that while they are world class athletes, they are also educated and well spoken and very loyal to what they believe in. Seems to me one of those sponsors that really did believe in the sport of cycling would have made a stand on the women's side...

G: For our readers, what is the USWCDP?

ME: We work at building a network of people who want to offer support to women cyclists. On one hand we are like a lobby and we abdicate for the sport not just the riders. We do lean toward the side of the athlete because everything is on their back. At camps I had done the one thing that always came up was who would an athlete call if they had a question? There may be a hundred different places to call to get some answers but there was no one good place to start so we try to be that place. Teams call and ask about good riders and riders call about teams so we put them together. Basically we always make an effort to help or find someone who can. I see the USWCDP as just the foundation of a building, I think the upper floors are just being built and they consist of the athletes and their goals and wishes and beliefs.

From your introduction above, while we do try to find the proper "technologies" and guidance, all we are really doing is to use the things that are already out there. To try and put people of like minds together so really the most valuable thing we have is an open line of communication. While we work to help athletes, and that involves training and being a professional athlete over time, what I have found is that the capabilities of these women are outside of sports. I think we are starting to become more impressed by what they will do for the world and not just how fast they can ride a bike. These athletes are very impressive citizens of the world and cycling is just a piece of their goals in life.

G: I read that you started the USWCDP with a lot of your own money. I know that other sponsors have since stepped up and invested in your goals and missions, how has the program been received on a whole…have there been people reluctant to "buy-into" it or even downright against it?

ME: I have put a lot into this and the cost has been high in many ways. I just felt it is a cause that I have to support, that I can not walk away from.

The difficulty in pitching what we are doing is that it is largely different from what is usually done. We are not putting together a team with a jersey on 7 different riders, what we are doing is trying to create an extensive network of support for all women cyclists. Sponsors have to believe in the cause and the good intentions not just the media impression or the podium appearance. It has been difficult to get out the stories of these athletes but some are starting to notice. There are, I think, people who understand why a woman would get her degree or her Masters or her Doctorate or pass the Bar but then set it all aside to race a bike for little or no money. Most of the athletes look at their athletic career as something that makes them what they are, part of the life education, and they will use that to succeed at other things later in life. Seems like a dream cause for a sponsor to want to be involved with to me.

I want to get back to scouting talent more. I think that is the most important thing because you have to always be out there looking but also so riders can see there is, in our own small way, support.

I haven't found that anyone is outwardly against us though I think some don't get what we are trying to do. We don't charge athletes so its not like our business plan is really good but that does allow us to be mostly neutral and always be on the side of the sport . I also think there are some that are a little condescending toward any women's sports and, unfortunately, I sometimes find it within the sport.

I think I deal with athletes like I preferred to be dealt with which is don't push me up a road, just show me which road to take.

G: You stated that you want to get back into scouting talent. What are your responsibilities currently in the USWCDP? And how is talent "scouted" currently? Is there a scouting network similar to what you see in other sports? Would you like to see that kind of scouting network built?

ME: I do everything! (laugh) I just work to build the network of people who care about women's cycling and that means a lot of phone and email time. I do hope to be back at many of the races in 2008 to be able to watch and see what talent is out there. I look forward to being amazed at some new talent! I think there is a good group of people out there now who know talent when they see it. Teams are always looking for talent and some of the directors will call me now and then to let me know of someone they saw. If the USWCDP can help that athlete in some way then that helps the team when they look to add that rider to the team later. It's always been easy to see that we all have to work together but what we need to do is figure how to do that work best.

I want to make the point that I don't think the USWCDP is doing something "bigger" in the sport than others are, I think we are just trying to link and rally all the people who are doing great things. I'm talking bike shops and clubs and coaches and all those small teams that want to help their riders and directors of big teams that want to see young riders develop so that they can add them to their teams. The Program is everyone who is trying to help these athletes! People like Linda Jackson from TIBCO and Carmen D'Aluisio from Aaron's and Laura Weislo or Lisa Hunt from the Value Act team, they are all doing something positive for athletes. I have such an enormous amount of respect for Kristy Scrymgeour from Team High Road because she cares about the sport and the athletes and doing it all the right way.

G: For the rider out there who feels they are qualified for the USWCDP, what is the process to get into the program…what type(s) of qualifications are required…is there an age limit (low or high) for participation?

ME: On the one hand we never turn away a question and we try to help anyone who asks for help but it has become easy to get overloaded. I do think our network of people willing to help is growing. Our Mentors, current and former Pro riders, have great advice to offer and there are bike shops and coaches and doctors and other athletes who will step in offer advice or some sort of care. My frustration has been that we have not been able to help financially as much as I wish. There have been a couple athletes we work with where one plane ticket to a race that they would not otherwise have gone to changed their career in a positive way. There are some great opportunities out there such as the new US National Team format but you had better be ready to do it for no pay and I hate to see that be a reason for an athlete to not go forward.

All the USWCDP riders have heard my pitch on what efforts need to be done to be an athlete and that you can't look to blame or complain about not getting a break. An athlete has to feel that her fate is in her own hands so ask questions, seek some answers and ride your bike. The USWCDP will try to be there to answer a question or give advice but there is only so much we can do but we do though I hope the athlete gets some kind of power through that advice.

G: What did you think of Georgia Gould's recent petition for "Equal Pay?"

ME: Georgia's aunt lives close to Dolores and while I only know her a little I would say that standing up for what you believe in strongly is a trait that runs in the family. I've seen these women race; they deserve just as much prize money as anyone else in the sport.

G: I read that Webcor is the only UCI listed women's team currently. Do you see the growth of US Women's cycling into the international landscape as being integral to the growth of women's cycling in general?

ME: I do think it is important. Cycling is a world wide sport and there is world class talent in the US so they need to be on the world stage. I think that working toward the highest athletic level is a given in sport. For the women athletes, the International level is already the direction they are going. The idea and drive of "let’s perform" also covers much of the need of "let’s promote".

G: Along those same lines, do you think it's essential to have some of Europe's biggest names participate in North American, specifically US, events to grow the sport?

ME: It is normal to want to see the talent from all over the world. The worlds talent racing against each other gets world wide press and that is important. I would also say that some of the biggest names in the world are from the US so the international athlete is already here and I would hope fans would want to see them race. Look at what Amber Neben has done each year! She has won the Route de France and the Tour de l'Aude twice. Check out what Kristin Armstrong and Sarah Hammer have done internationally. The crowds should come out to see them anytime they can.

G: I wrote a post offering up Mara Abbott as the "Next Great American Cyclist" do you think that is too heady of title right now in her career, or given her talent is her career arc on that type of plane?

ME: As a coach or mentor I really don't do an athlete much of a favor by telling them how great they are. Mara has an amazing amount of talent but she will be the first to tell you that its what she proves to herself that counts. I think the press has every right to make those predictions and Mara has every right to make the sort of goals she has made but it comes down to gaining experience and lots of work. I certainly have seen things that give me a great idea on what she is capable of but for me I would rather she show you then have me tell you about it.

I hope the press will look toward the "Next Group" of American Cyclists. Riders like Katharine Carroll, Alison Powers and Amber Rais are ready now. Andrea Dvorak, Kristin McGrath, Amy Dombroski, Rebecca Much, ...these are riders on the way. There are others I haven't named and more we haven't even heard of yet.

Photos: Michael Engleman with Mara Abbott (Courtesy of Whitman College); Michael and Amy Dombroski (Courtesy of Karen Webster); and Pan Am Games (L to R: Kristin Armstrong, Michael, and Kimberly Baldwin)